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Thread: How to fix Season 2

  1. #1
    Junior Member JayVee's Avatar
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    How to fix Season 2

    First thank you BH for an outstanding job in season 1. For those of us that stayed here it's been great. With that said...HORRIBLE BEGINNING FOR SEASON 2. I'm sure you have read all previous posts hence you posted today your Q&A. Well sadly to say guys, your Q&A was not correct. However after reading your response I will redo MY previous comment to accommodate what I believe YOU guys are really after ok. Here was my previous post:

    " Everyone knows whose been playing this game that there are 5 major coiners here and that if it weren't for them there would be literally just small fry paying to play etc. With the new changes in place you have now also gotten the ire of those 5 coiners. You of all people know with the plus/minus four level rule that its impossible get resources let alone save for them. 30 days protection will allow one person to upgrade one building and 3 batt personal. 30 days is NOT enough time to save res to up your TOC. So please. Rethink what you guys have done. My suggestion is the following. If you want to keep this current format you must do the following in order for players to be able to upgrade still:
    1- Increase production rate by at least four time its current rate to all of the bases yards. This will help a person tremendously.
    2- Decrease the repair time so that a person will be able to continue repairing units while the rest are being utilized.
    3- Change the hitting lower level/upper level to only plus & minus 2. This will remove bullying from ALL LEVELS of play. A level 15 can only hit a 13,14 base. A level 12 can only hit a level 10,11 base. A level 9 can only hit a level 7,8 base etc...Everyone knows a maxed out level 10 base will be hard to hit by a level 11 and make it at least challenging for a level 12 to hit.
    4- Bring back the 7th day free unit for everyone. WHO CARES ABOUT JUMPING!!!
    Well this feedback I believe everyone will agree is not just a rant and rave go to hell post but I've thought about this a lot and you will still be able to make money and still retain those that cannot afford to coin. I hope this helps out..."

    So the main reason you increased the amounts needed to upgrade was because players were leveling up to fast correct? Not because you wanted more coiners? Ok well then let me redo my list above to accommodate your intention and still give incentive player to want to continue ok"
    1- Instead of four times the current rate make it THREE times its current speed. There are part time players here that are not in a clan and just enjoy the game. They would like to log on everyday, do a single and collect their res etc. This will allow this type of person to level up slowly and NOT be impossible to do so.
    2- Fine you want us to work to level up, keep the repair time as it is.
    3- NOT NEGOTIABLE! Your response in your Q&A was utter nonsense. Bot, Chaos, Demo, Ducky etc can literally terrorize all level 11,12 and 13 if they wanted to. I dare you Devs to place a those levels in map 300 and 301 with your name on it and post your location. You will see your base turned into a hole with no problem so please DO NOT try and say other wise.
    4- We need that 7th day unit to be able to create a batt of a higher level so a person can revenge etc. That really is the reason why everyone logs in everyday regardless of OUR hectic schedule. Now there really is no need to and with the new change some have already forgotten about this game.

    NOTE #3 I believe is the most important thing to do because it will allow a new person to level up and not worry about their resources being stolen. You want us to " earn " and " work " to level up well so be it, but please make it realistic and NOT impossible.

    NO need to go back to season 1 IF IF IF IF you sit back down and realize what I have said is fair to us players and at the same time accomplishes what you wanted to do in the first place. Please look and see. Respond to this post by all means. WE need to hear from you guys.


    Thank you

  2. #2
    Battlehouse Inc. bh-dan's Avatar
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    Appreciate the responses here.

    Just to clarify, what are the L15s doing that let them take out lower-level players with impunity? If there are only 5 of them, doesn't that mean there are only a couple of spots on the map your battalions need to avoid?

    Narrowing the PvP level gap is an interesting idea, we'll consider that if map PvP turns out to be too harsh.

    We're reluctant to raise in-base Yard rates because they already produce about 50% of all resource income right now, and we don't want to incentivize players even more to stay at home and collect resources passively.

    Before Season 2, the resource picture was basically:
    50% from passive harvesting
    49% from Single Player
    1% from all forms of Multiplayer (quarries, PvP, event bases, ...)

    The goal with Season to is to shift a bunch of that resource activity away from Single player and into Multiplayer.

    We'll definitely consider raising quarry yield and Multiplayer AI base loot, if it's necessary to support the same resource income players are used to.

  3. #3
    Junior Member Pennywise's Avatar
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    Jaylee...well said...but i doubt anything gets changed. I believe they will only see ways to make it harder. I'm all for them proving me wrong. It's been the same sound and dance for almost 9mths .

  4. #4
    Junior Member brad28's Avatar
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    Virtually any player that's attacking another player 4 levels below them can wipe out the lower level player with impunity. I've had all of my turrets, emplacements, buildings and security teams maxed out for my level, with good building/turret layout, and barely scratched players four levels above me when they attacked my base. IMO the level range is too broad. The reduced resources that higher level players get from you is a good thing and discourages high level players from attacking, but if you attack someone at your level who is in a clan, typically a high level player will retaliate. This makes it suicidal to attack. If you want to encourage fighting, make it so that the fights are more even. Either narrow the level range or provide damage bonuses/penalties based on the level difference.

    I've attacked players higher level than me, and it can be successful if they haven't built up their defenses, as it should be. It provides a nice challenge. But if it results in a high level player retaliating, there's no incentive for me to attack someone (and this is what you'd expect from a good clan - more experienced players helping protect lower level players in their clan).

    I understand the desire to get players to gather resources on the map instead of in single player. I think you should provide an incentive by making the payoff 1.5x as much as for single player (i'm suggesting raising the resources in teh map base, not reducing the single player). Right now, attacking a single player base is about the same amount of resources as the same lvl base on the map. It should be more if you take the additional time and risk of travelling on the map. The way my schedule is, I often only have 5 or 10 min at a time. The single player bases are great for this. I can attack, and if I have to leave before finishing, the base is still there with the damage I caused before. If I try to do this with the map bases I will use all of my time travelling and not get anything. I might also have to leave before they get back home and find my batt dead when I return. Single player should be good for when you don't have much time, but if you have a bigger block of time it should be worth going after multi-player map bases.

    I get that you want to slow down the pace of advancement, but that was too big of a jump in too short of a time. I think raising the resource requirements so abruptly was the wrong way to do it. If you don't want people racing through the lower levels, it would be better to increase the requirements by requiring other buildings to be higher level, instead of just a few. Maybe even raise the cost of all of the buildings 5%-10% instead of the toc 150% to 300+%(?) (although I still would rather they stayed where they were).

    Edit to add: I guess what I'm saying is that it would be much more effective if instead of trying to force a certain type of gameplay, you tried to provide incentives for it.

  5. #5
    Junior Member JayVee's Avatar
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    BH-Dan thank you for your response. I actually understand your situation because I have friends who are devs in other games. To your question about the level 15 players. Its actually boring for them because they are the top dogs and so with that said they can just wander about the entire map and what they want. We lower lever are fortunate they do not roam around bullying everyone, just those that irritate them ( see all level 15's snicker lol). I know you are still working on this game which is great but please do consider what I've said. If you haven't seen yet but we, the collective, have place one batt in the eastern side of map 301 to show the entire communities displeasure of the current changes. Enemies alike have a unwritten truce to show our collective as one...work with us please.
    Thank you again for responding.

  6. #6
    Junior Member JayVee's Avatar
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    Brad elaborated to what I was trying to say BH-Dan. If you want more battles on the map increase the rewards by 50%. Here's why. A level 10 batt maxed out hits a level 9 Joulet base. Total rewards were 18k supplies and 4k fuel. Nice right? Wrong. It will cost that attacker if he has skills 12k supplies and 2.7k fuel to repair not to mention the 4 hours it will take for repair. Once again you're forcing them to repair using gold. Thats ok with me if you want us to use gold or otherwise wait. I did say in my post #2 leave as is HOWEVER the rewards are absolutely horrible...Adding that additional 50% (that lvl 9 base would start with 27k and 6k) would make that level 10 receive 15k supplies and 3.3k fuel if you did and that my friend is fair. I know people will want more but I do sympathize with what you guys are trying to accomplish hence the 5-% increase. BTW I personally think its great you put the singles out on the map. Makes it exciting because you never know when someone will kill off your batt ROFL

  7. #7
    Junior Member LOST's Avatar
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    HI guys... I made this post in ClanHq but think it probably belongs in this thread.. To try and find solutions to our problems, rather than just complaining about them. I,ve changed a couple of minor things that I given more thought to.
    My response to the "Design Teams" response:
    "BH SAID" Much of the dominance of high-level players comes not from high-DPS/HP units, but from the ability to instantly teleport battalions around the map. :
    I don't believe that "warping" on the map was the big problem. The biggest problem of higher players dominating over the smaller players has more to do with the ability to attack an enemy 4 levels lower. There is no defence against a player who is 4 levels higher than you no matter how goodof a player you are.. The design team must realise this or they wouldn't have made the single player bases only available to 3 levels higher. This is an inconsistency in the game.. Real life players is 4 up and 4 down... A.I. bases is only 3 up and 3 down. Suggested fix: Introduce a game wide 2 up and 2 down attack availability across the board.. A.I. bases, Player bases, and battalions. When this was suggested in the earlier days of the game, the main argument against it (and rightly so) was that there would be no-one for the few of the higher levels to hit. I don't think this would be the case now.
    "BH SAID" High-level players still have the most powerful units and battalions, but now groups of lower-level players should be able to take advantage of improved fairness in map movement to outmaneuver lone high-level dominators:
    Again incorrect.. Even by having a clan mate "bumping" an attacker away from his target, just delays the attack till the attacker gets within range. Suggested fix: As above... limit the attack of battalions to 2 up and 2 down.
    "BH SAID" Won’t it be too hard for low-level players to gather resources now?
    A group of alpha testers has been playing with all TOC L5+ AI enemies changed from Single to Multiplayer, and these players still gather about the same amount of resources each day as they did before the switch:

    Did the group of alpha testers have an enemy hitting them 3 or 4 times a day to which they had no defence? While I agree that the gather rate of resources wouldn't change, keeping those resources in reserve would be impossible in a normal game play situation. By more than doubling the required resources for upgrades, and having no way of protecting those resources from a higher level player has now made it near on impossible to advance in the game for mid level players. I would imagine that these mid level players are the bulk of Firestrike players.
    "BH SAID" Upgrade costs have gone up significantly for mid-level players; doesn’t this cause too much boring “grinding”?
    Firestrike has roughly the same amount of upgrades as our previous games, but players have been advancing towards max levels far more quickly than we’ve ever seen, running the risk of exhausting the game content before the design team can prepare additional unlocks and upgrades. The increased resource and time requirements are intended to dial back the pace of progression more in line with previous successful Battlehouse titles. :

    Most players have come to this game "because it is different" to other Battlehouse games.. We don't want it to be the same as other BH games with just a different title. Most players on Firestrike have played other BH games previously and they already have a basic understanding of the game play. They are not silly, and can work out how to fast track progressing in the game.
    Rather than the developers spending time on this upgrade, surely they would have been better off spending their time on fast tracking the additional unlocks and upgrades.
    An easy way to slow down progression in the game would be to make it that "most" buildings and units HAVE to be maxed at your level before the TOC can be upgraded.
    Also, to increase "map play" I agree with the posters above; Increase the reward from map bases, both A.I. bases and Quarries.
    Just my 2 bobs worth.

  8. #8
    just seen this one lol Dan you cant be for real with your question about level 15 players . Just avoid them come on. even if there were no batt speed jumps you still cant avoid them. all higher level players do is put a batt at your base and kill every batt that come out or tries to get home. with the regrouping they just have to wait tell your heading home see your goast batt and wait for it. probably has happened to almost everyone by now. lol If they put a batt at your base soon as your batt apears outside your base they just move to it and kill it before the regrouping is finished. Nothing you can do to stop a level 15 batt from killing yours, or any one with stronger batts then yours for that matter. and there is no way to just avoid them. If there was no regrouping then you could at least get out of and into your base without being killed and maybe run from them on the map. Have you never played the game just wondering based on your question and the suggestion that we could just avoid areas of the map. If you have never played then I understand your confusion on how the games played. It also explanes all the problems with the changes that have been made. If none of the people who are running and designing the game are playing it, and running tests with only level 5 players on a map with little to no high level enemies killing there batts and bases all day, then I understand why the game has been completly distroyed with the season 2 updates.

  9. #9
    Battlehouse Inc. bh-dan's Avatar
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    We do play, but given our day jobs building the game (plus keeping six others running) it's hard to match the huge number of hours the entire player base is collectively putting in. (as a young player I thought it was crazy that players understand gameplay trends better than devs, but now that I'm in a game company I totally understand...).

    Point taken regarding the dominance of L15 vs L11 armies and the impact of the +/- 4 attack rule. Another thing in the mix is auto-resolve, which we recently discovered is responsible for an outsized portion of unit losses in bat-vs-bat combat.

    We're poring over the battle logs looking for confirmation that there is actually an up-trend in PvP attacks and resource losses. So far though the numbers like "average # of PvP attacks suffered per day" and "average resource losses per day" are looking about the same as they were before the patch.

    It seems like the feeling of upgrades getting blocked has more to do with the increased resource requirements than it does with any changes in PvP activity. It will take a bit longer for us to confirm whether the resource costs are on target or too high; we're monitoring for that now.

    I can imagine a case where a 2x increase in res cost results in a much more than 2x difficulty of upgrading, due to PvP losses incurred along the way. If that's the case, we may need to adjust the patch.

  10. #10
    Junior Member brad28's Avatar
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    I haven't used auto-resolve, because I assume it is like other games I've played where your results are based on the odds. This tends to have more losses than controlling your battalion so you can lure individual units, etc. Since the batt fights I've had were against players approx at my level or above, I haven't used it. I assume auto-resolve is mainly used by higher level player taking out lower level player batts. I think it's just a convenience (slight time saver) for someone attacking batts several levels lower. I doubt it really changes the mix of fights much. But maybe I'm wrong - I haven't used it and haven't attacked lots of batts.

    Edit to add: From your comments "Logs showw the majority of unit losses in battalion-vs-battalion combat are from auto-resolved battles. Is auto-resolve the main cause of "bat sniping" issues? Should we just turn it off? or limit it to attacks against mostly-empty battalions?"

    I think the majority of unit losses in batt vs. batt combat are from high level players attacking low level players. I don't think it has much to do with auto-resolve - maybe a slight time-savings and easier than micro-managing. If you're higher level, you don't have to worry about minimizing the damage to your batts because someone 4 levels lower won't damage them anyway.

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